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Frank and Stan Chats

Frank and Stan Chats

By: Frank Norris and Stan Johnson
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About this listen

 Frank Norris and Stan Johnson have been friends since 1995. Both have had successful and lengthy careers in education. Frank was a very senior HMI with Ofsted for 11 years and was the CEO of the Coop Academies Trust for 6 years. Stan was seconded to Ofsted for a year and then returned to headship before working as a senior adviser with Lancashire LA. He has latterly led a successful education consultancy in the North West. Prior to Covid-19, the two gents would meet in Manchester for a pint or two but the pandemic put an end to that. On 1 May 2020, they recorded their first video chat as a way of recording their emotions and reactions to the pandemic. After putting the video on Youtube as a safe place to store it they realised that some followers began to appear. Now, with nearly 180 episodes and having chatted to Professors, CEOs, journalists, teachers, former HMI, education thinkers and Frank's Key Stage 1 leading daughter they have a loyal following and a rapidly increasing number of viewers. The reach of the Frank and Stan Chat stretches from Bogota to Ottawa to Greece and their first Live Edition was recorded in front of nearly 200 Headteachers in York. The Chats are not undertaken to attract followers or for financial reward (nothing is received and nothing will be received). It is a way of airing views on education matters between two professional friends with a focus on leadership. We are honoured to be invited to host the weekly chats on the Leader-connect website www.leader-connect.co.uk. The chats helped the gents get through the pandemic and they are delighted that they have been enjoyed by others and appear to have helped in developing leadership thought and actions. If you fancy being a guest then just reach out. We never post a video unless the guest is comfortable with it. So, it is a relatively risk-free environment. Thank you. Frank and Stan. PS. We were honoured to be identified as one of the Top 50 education and leadership podcasts in THE WORLD!!! We can't believe it, but it appears to be true.

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© 2023 Frank and Stan Chats
Episodes
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 225

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 225
    May 21 2025

    A riveting, well-informed and insightful chat with Kevin Edward Turner MBE, co-founder and co-artistic director of Company Chameleon, a highly regarded contemporary dance company based in Manchester. Kevin was a student of Frank's when he was a headteacher and re-connected in 2018 when Company Chameleon undertook dance workshops in some of the Coop's academies in Greater Manchester.


    Kevin explains how his life was transformed and given purpose when the Northern Ballet Theatre Company provided a dance residence at the primary school he was attending. His obvious talent was seen immediately and fostered through the Trafford Dance Group, headed by the amazing Linda Coles. He created Company Chameleon in 2006 and it has grown from strength to strength. he's soon to accompany the dance company on a trip to Japan as part of the UK deputation for the World Expo. He is an inspiration.


    But his life has been challenging especially when he faced serious mental health issues. The chat covers these and considers how important an active and vibrant arts curriculum is for all pupils and why this is sadly lacking in some schools. Stan reflects on a report published this week that makes clear how serious the drop in engagement is for students when they begin their secondary phase experience. We all offer some reasons for this. sadly, none of us were surprised by the findings.


    Kevin then reflects on the many years he has engaged with young people at 42nd Street, a charity offering mental health support to young people aged 16-25 years. Yesterday was his final session with the young people. Their response and gratitude for his work were very moving. Kevin also considers the impact of free access to education that exists in Scotland and why this is a powerful force for economic and personal development.


    Frank closes the chat with a reflection on the latest Sutton trust report that considers where social mobility is most successful. There appears to be a clear link between economic opportunities and the chances of achieving strong improvement in social mobility. He considers the lack of funding for FE and adult education and why the Early Years funding is important in that it supports parents/carers as well as the children.


    It's a belting chat. We are incredibly proud to be able to chat for around 50 minutes with such inspiring guests. Please share the video with others. The messages about the arts, curriculum access and mental health are apposite.

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    52 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 224

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 224
    May 16 2025

    Just the two gents this week and they consider governance, leadership and the 'fit and proper' test for football, rugby league and MAT leadership. With Salford City Reds facing a winding-up order for non-payment of taxes Stan considers how they got into this position while Frank considers the journey of his beloved Southend Utd which faced similar difficulties recently. They consider the importance of honesty and transparency in leadership and Frank is quick to highlight the work of Prof Marianne Jennings and her book The Seven Signs of Ethical Collapse'. By the way, she's agreed to join our chat, we just need to pin down a date.


    Frank then reflects on the recent chats with Rebecca Hanson and Aelwyn Pugh and explains why they were so impactful. The chat then considers CEO salaries and the redundancies one high profile MAT is facing and why it feels wrong when senior leaders earn so much.


    We hope you enjoy it.

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    40 mins
  • Frank and Stan Chat No. 223

    Frank and Stan Chat No. 223
    May 12 2025
    Every now and again Frank and Stan give full rein to our guest, especially if they want to share some insight that is challenging or even provocative. This is what happened when Aelwyn Pugh, a former highly experienced HMI joined us again for our weekly chat. Aelwyn had prepared a carefully considered his thoughts on the issue of social mobility and how it had enabled him to progress. He also reflected on the type of education he received and how it enabled him to challenge orthodoxy and helped him to better understand the world. He considers how Germany undertook a deeper soul-searching of their past and how this has ensured they view the world in a more rounded way. Throughout the chat Aelwyn is mindful of the vital role education plays in guiding and supporting young people. He is highly critical of some who view this important role as purely an examination machine. For him, education is so much more. It is a highly thoughtful chat with Aelwyn offering a compelling view of past education mistakes and how things can be improved.

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    37 mins
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