With rising tuition and the changing nature of work, is college worth it? According to the president of Northern Arizona University, the answer is yes, and he’s on a mission to make the case for the value of postsecondary education for not just students, but also society. In this episode, we hear what the return on investment is in getting a postsecondary education, particularly for students moving out of poverty.

This episode features Jen Hatmaker, an American author, speaker, blogger, and television presenter, in conversation with Jose Luis Cruz Rivera, president of Northern Arizona University, member of the Postsecondary Value Commission in the United States. Jen and Jose Luis discuss how college is the best vehicle to allow a person to be a lifelong learner and have better economic and non-economic returns. This is particularly true for low-income students moving out of poverty who can better understand and experience opportunity and upward mobility as well as grow their earnings to sustain themselves and their families. College has also shown to increase levels of civic engagement, better health, critical thinking and literacy, showing that four-year degrees provide the highest return on investment. It’s important to meet students where they are, working with K12 schools and considering contexts like financial pressures, housing insecurity, food insecurity, mental health issues to create favorable conditions for learning. This is part of an effort to make postsecondary more accessible and navigable for all.

Make Me Care About is produced by Magnificent Noise in partnership with The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

To learn more about our show: https://www.gatesfoundation.org/podcast/make-me-care-about

For more on The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation’s work: https://www.gatesfoundation.org

To learn more about college:

Postsecondary Success Strategy: https://usprogram.gatesfoundation.org/what-we-do/postsecondary-success

Postsecondary Value Commission: Is College Worth It?: https://postsecondaryvalue.org/

NAU 2025 – Elevating Excellence: https://nau.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/197/0613_742018_OOP-Elevating-Excellence-Brochure-FY22_9x9_ADA-FINAL.pdf

IHEP Case Study: Student Success is in the DNA of NAU: https://www.ihep.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/IHEP_VDC_CaseStudy_NAU_rd3_print-1-1.pdf

For more on the work of our guest, Jose Luis Cruz Rivera: https://nau.edu/president/jose-luis-cruz-rivera-biography/

Learn more about our host, Jen Hatmaker: https://jenhatmaker.com

Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Hiwote Getaneh, Julia Natt, and our sound designer Kristin Mueller. Our Executive Producer is Eric Nuzum and the host is Jen Hatmaker.

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