1:42 - Meet Jeff and his big question for product managers: "How can we ensure we have the right understanding from our leaders?"

4:30 - Ryan emphasizes the importance of focusing on outcomes over outputs to clarify product manager responsibilities.

7:35 - Todd jokes about where their "outputs over outcomes" tattoo should go.

9:20 - Ryan urges product managers to seek clarity when they don’t understand the "why" behind a request.

10:30 - Todd shares a story from his LA Times days on asking for clarification from his boss.

15:12 - The group discusses how product managers can overcomplicate unclear requests.

16:00 - Joe suggests playing the "New Guy" card when in doubt.

19:00 - The team highlights that asking questions is a strength for a product manager, not a weakness.

23:35 - Ryan poses the question: Is there ever a time when product managers shouldn't ask for clarification?

24:28 - Joe shares a story about when he had to "bite his tongue" as a product manager.

26:30 - Todd adds that timing is everything; knowing when to ask is part of the product manager job.

30:00 - Joe discusses the role evolution from order-taker to partner for a product manager.

33:26 - Todd revisits Jeff’s story to highlight the importance of avoiding wasted time and resources on misaligned products.

34:30 - Joe shares a product manager tip: develop internal personas to better manage stakeholders and understand their goals.

35:20 - A lightning round on common requests that product managers initially misunderstood.

36:40 - The infamous "JIRA-slinging ticket monkey" term makes an appearance. Shoutout to Dean Peters!

38:46 - Key takeaways (and some friendly teasing of Joe for his wording choices).

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Episode Description

1:00- Meet Nils Davis

2:47- Nils reminds us that Product Managers are really “Unicorns” in the workforce

7:00- Nils shares his favorite phrase as a Product Manager “Your obvious is your art”

8:47- Nils shares the pros/cons of understanding your “spike”

10:03- We discuss how it's difficult to share our superpower with the people that surround us

12:08- Nils shares the different ways we can discover our PM spike/superpower

15:45- Todd shares the struggle with asking for feedback to identify your PM spike/superpower

17:52- Nils shares one of his PM spikes

20:15- Todd shares the PM spike he wishes he had

22:12- Todd compares Joe’s PM spike to that of a Golden Retriever

25:20- A new word is introduced to the Product Porch- “Pragmatic Empathy”

28:15- Todd asks the question of whether or not the PM role has a unique set of capabilities

33:19- We review the stable of “Product” Unicorns-

36:19- Todd reminds us why he’s against Annual Performance Reviews and not a coder 🙂

39:10- We wrap up with our advice for the PM community struggling to find their “spike” (Nils-leverage Clifton Strengths Finder assessment)- people are the stars of their own movies

40:18- Todd- Don’t feel guilty for your spike. Find that thing that you love and lean into it

41:30- Joe- Be genuine and true to yourself (not as profound as Todd/Nils)

42:00- Nils ends with a very profound thought- “Product Managers are amazing creatures, yet you would never know it from reading their resume”

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2:15 What are the Product Management trends everyone is talking about

4:30- Todd asks the question: Are we focusing on the problem at the expense of the solution?

7:00- Joe explains why he believes we have over-indexed on some of the common PM themes

10:05- We are getting paid to deliver- reality check for all PMs

11:45- Ryan tells how this is a struggle for Type A personalities

13:16- Todd walks us through his approach to move to execution (from high-level concepts to delivery)

14:21- Joe’s shares an unpopular opinion about SAFe and its value for Product Leaders

16:08- Todd shares how he uses Ryan and Joe for some very specific product needs- team bonding moment

18:45 Todd admits that SAFe quarterly planning is awesome. Joe and Todd have a moment

22:54- What is the Product Managers Role in Solutioning? Ryan shared his POV

27:12- Todd shares a current situation on what to do with competing perspectives on proposed solutions-

29:09- You need to have confidence and conviction- Ryan Cantwell- this is what a PM needs to do

30:30- Sometimes you just make calculated risks as Product Managers- we discuss as a team

35:03- Todd kicks off a Job title game- problem or solution. Grab your popcorn!

39:01- Todd shares why he loves “defining the problem”

41:04- Key Takeaways-

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1:22 The fellas discuss their favorite Ken phrase

1:44- Ken tells us what it means to be a product management truth teller

5:16- What can we do as product managers to become more valuable?

8:35- One of the first steps- What goal are you trying to achieve and how can I help you get there?

10:30- Ken tells us why you should spend 20 min a week interviewing a customer

12:55: Todd outlines why experimentation is critical for a product manager

16:45- The team discuss the product management anti-patterns we should watch out for

23:00- How to make yourself an indispensable product person?

26:30- Ken talks about how you can build a quarterly plan to build a strong product management team

28:00- Todd shares his PM secret sauce- Product Framing

29:00- Ryan reminds us to ask the question “So What”

30:56- We share Ken’s favorite PM phrase “Magic Beans”

34:15- What got us here (why are there so many PMs that are unemployed)?

37:40- Is there another domain where the role is defined by someone who doesn’t understand the value of product management?

40:00 Key Takeaways/Wrap-up

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1:22- Joe explains why the role of Product Player Coach role is a cop-out

2:51- Todd uses data to say how it can work and leverages his love of the NBA to demonstrates why

5:34- We discuss what success looks like for a Product Manager Player Coach

10:02- Ryan walks us through how we resolved the challenges associated with this hybrid role

13:32- Todd walks us through the disadvantages of the hybrid PM/Coach role

16:03- Joe emphatically tells us why Product Managers must be successful at relationships- Product Managers are already “coaches”

20:15- We talk about getting uncomfortable to grow as a product manager

23:30- Joe discusses his affinity for gold stars

26:30- Life lessons from being a player-coach have advantages for career advancement if you want to be a people manager

30:20- What are the negatives of being a player-coach?

32:30- We hear about Todd’s real-life experience as a player-coach. Todd clashes with his peers but learns to turn it around.

34:50- Ryan tells us about his real-life experience as a player-coach. He’s the scapegoat!

37:10- How do relationships change when you become a player-coach?

40:20- Hear a fantastic analogy between player-coach and Spider-man 2

44:25- Words of advice for anyone considering the role of player-coach.

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1:30 Ryan ponders what product failure means?

3:37 The true definition of failure is identified

6:33 Todd speaks to the categories of product failure

9:33 Todd assumes the role of therapist and tells Ryan and Joe they didn’t fail

12:13- We discuss how we turn failure into a learning opportunity

15:06- Joe discusses the most underrated product management skill

19:08- We bring back the Jobs to be done framework when dealing with our co-workers

22:25- Todd shares a tip on how manage friction with a co-workers (brilliant)

25:44- We talk about the temptation to take short-cuts with process

29:00 Todd tells us why he didn’t win any newsroom awards one year

31:00 Ryan comes up with a new PM slogan “It's the scars that make you and not the successes” (Joe thinks it should be on a bumper sticker)

32:34- The “learning” is knowing how we can do it better next time (Hallmark card time)

35:00 - Todd reminds why we shouldn’t never give up when the going gets tough

36:08 - We talk about the fear of using AI to make product management short cuts

37:09 - We all share our product failure war stories

44:30- Wayne’s World reference makes its way into our podcast- Success!

48:00- Thoughts on how you respond to failure drives who you are as a product manager

52:00 Wrap Up

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1:07 – Joe kicks off the discussion on useless product management terms.
1:49 – We start the PM Jargon Draft, with Todd winning the #1 pick.
3:04 – Todd and Ryan’s #1 pick: "CEO of the Product."
4:23 – Joe’s #1 pick: "Customer Centric" (he’s salty he couldn’t trade for the #1 pick).
6:07 – Todd discusses how every healthcare company is "patient-first" – shouldn’t we all be patient-first in healthcare?
7:14 – Ryan questions "Productize" – is it a verb? A new word in the English dictionary? The big draft controversy.
9:41 – Todd adds "Gathering Requirements" to his hit list of terrible PM terms. We suggest "Gathering Insights" as a better alternative.
15:00 – Iteration vs. Agile discussion – "We are going to be Agile" drives Joe nuts because it often just means "Can we launch it faster?"
18:20 – Ryan selects a declaration: "We are going to be more innovative."
21:10 – "Thinking outside the box" is a controversial pick in the draft.
22:25 – Todd explains why he hates the term "Feature Parity"; Joe recommends "Holistic Approach" instead.
30:51 – "Being Product-led" is a steal in the 3rd round for Ryan, who explains what it really means.
36:10 – Undrafted superstar PM Terms (Joe has PTSD from Ryan yelling at him for "fail fast").
40:00 – Todd predicts next year’s draft class, starting with "Outcomes over Outputs," "Product-Market Fit," and "Go-to-Market Enablement."
43:00 – Actionable takeaways.

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• Ryan tells us how he leveraged PM principles recently for his mulch project ( 0:45)
• Joe shows us how Ryan applied the Jobs to Done framework to Ryan’s approach (3:00)
• We discuss how often we apply PM Principles creep into our life (5:00)
• Todd discusses how Problem Framing can be applied in real-world scenarios (12:00)
• Joe gives us a review of the Broadway Show “Heart of Rock and Roll” (20:00)
• Ryan walks us through dot voting techniques for family (21:00)
• Todd experiments with Tiny Acts of Discovery (23:50)
• Ryan applies iteration techniques when filling up the dishwasher (26:40)
• Todd discusses success metrics and his neighbor's lawn (31:00)
• We talk about which product principles don’t work in real life (32:27)
• Key takeaways and our recommendations (38:24)

Help keep the Product Porch lights on by giving at Patreon.com/TheProductPorch.