L&D leaders in large organizations often cite a lack of time as the main barrier to upskilling and reskilling. While increasing learning hours is important, the CLO Lift team found that time is not the most critical factor. Instead, the quality of learning has equal or greater influence on performance than the quantity of time spent. Rather than focusing solely on hours, business leaders and L&D professionals should emphasize value. This episode explores these insights with Lisa Christensen and Huw Newton-Hill.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• CLO Lift is a community of 20 CLOs who have got together to solve the biggest unresolved challenges in the L&D industry.
• You have to create true value before enough time will be allocated to employee learning.
• If you are not 100% in step with the business the training that you provide will be out of date and not relevant.
• The learning you deliver must genuinely enable people to make progress in their careers.
• L&D needs to stop only being order takers. Work more closely with managers to understand business challenges and be actively involved in finding solutions.
• Certain elements of people´s roles impact the way they behave. If a learning intervention cannot change that element speak up and ask those who can solve that underlying issue to do so.
• Create a learning culture, e.g. include skill acquisition in personal reviews.
• Democratize access to learning.
• Use generative AI to make the training more relevant in every role in every geography.
• Measure progress against actual business objectives.
• Start now.
• Create some small experiments and generate wins. You only need one win to create credibility and act as a springboard.

BEST MOMENTS

“Ensure that the whole body of L&D is in lockstep with the business.”

“The more courage you lean into, the more credibility you build.”

“Be bold and go forth.”

“Any good action today is better than perfect action a month from now.”

Lisa Christensen Bio:

As Director of Learning Design and Innovation at McKinsey & Company, Lisa leads a global team focused on cutting-edge learning solutions. She founded McKinsey’s Learning Research and Innovation Lab and is a recognized thought leader in learning. Lisa is a founding member of CLO Lift and was previously a senior leader at a learning design firm.

Huw Newton-Hill Bio:

Huw leads Attensi’s US office, delivering AI-powered training solutions. A former strategy consultant at BCG, he now drives growth and innovation in L&D, contributing to forums like CLO Lift.

VALUABLE RESOURCES

The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523

L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

ABOUT THE HOST

David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D.

CONTACT METHOD

• Twitter:  https://twitter.com/davidinlearning/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin/
• L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective/
• Blog: https://360learning.com/blog/
• L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

At some point or another, we’ve all found ourselves struggling to demonstrate the value of our L&D solutions, wondering if there has been value or whether we’ll find it. For many of us, it’s a constant search. In this episode, Neil John Cunningham unpacks this for us and lets us in on the steps outlined in his most recent book, Numbers & Narratives, to prove the value of our L&D.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Don´t worry about not understanding the data. Someone in the business will just ask them to explain it to you.
• Using data stories to prove the effectiveness of what you are doing is good for you as well as for the business. Most of us are not getting the most out of existing business data.
• Storytelling is incredibly powerful, especially if you back it up with data.
• The Hero´s Journey storytelling framework is often a good way to structure a data story.
• Once you´ve got your hypothesis, where the business is going and where it needs to go, break that down into learning objectives.
• Using data stories appeals to people who are emotionally driven as well as to those who are data driven.
• Understand what commercials are important to the people in your business.
• If you don´t know what the financials are e.g. how much it costs to handle each call talk to the people that do know.
• Be really honest about L&D can offer.
• If you can´t help with a certain issue, be brave enough to say so.
• Keep things simple and succinct. As much as possible use simple, universally understood data.

BEST MOMENTS

'I´d been creating these little data stories, I could prove that what I was doing was having an effect.'

'The way you solve the L&D engagement issue is to solve problems that matter to individuals.'

'Show where L&D can do better.'

VALUABLE RESOURCES

The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523

L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

Neil John Cunningham Bio

Neil is the author of the books, 19 Low-cost Ways to Improve Your L&D Offering; The Strategic Order Taker: A Guide for L&D to be Seen, Heard, and Valued; and his most recent Narratives & Numbers. Neil is an experienced Head of Talent & Learning and following a career of running Learning and Talent functions, he now supports others doing so with his consulting and writing.

You can connect with Neil and follow his work via:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neiljohncunningham/

Website: www.alignlearndo.com

Link to book: https://alignlearndo.com/narratives-and-numbers/

Code for 10% off book: 360

The Hero´s Journey - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Heros-Journey-Joseph-Campbell-Collected/dp/1608681890

ABOUT THE HOST

David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D.

CONTACT METHOD

• Twitter:  https://twitter.com/davidinlearning/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin/
• L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective/
• Blog: https://360learning.com/blog/
• L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

• What do 146 L&D professionals care most about?
• What are the killer stats L&D should know about right now?
• Is ‘learning content’ really necessary?
• What questions will be pulled from the cuddly toy’s posterior?

Find out the answers to all these questions and more in this very special live edition of The Learning & Development Podcast with guests Nick Shackleton-Jones and Kenny Temowo.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Understanding how to provide their organisation with greater value and impact is a big concern for L&D professionals.
• 75% of people said their work leader had more of an influence on their mental health than their life partner does.
• Experiential training for leaders enables them to better understand how their behaviour and expectations impact those who work for them.
• The fact that future generations look at work differently is having a huge impact on L&D.
• When people are offered face-to-face training, they feel invested in.
• Gamification isn´t working but simulations are.
• If you can´t see a measurable change (ROI) the chances are you should not be doing it.
• Content has to be carefully crafted to be relevant.

BEST MOMENTS

'I would make sure that we're really involving and holding accountable the leaders.'

'How do we help organizations manage stability, the sense of belonging and psychological safety that we need.'

'Content only matters to you if it's relevant somehow.'

VALUABLE RESOURCES

The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523

L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

ABOUT THE GUESTS

Nick Shackleton-Jones Bio

Nick is a genuine thought-leader in Learning & Development, responsible for initiating shift from ‘courses to resources’ and for the affective context model of learning.

He began his professional life as a psychology lecturer and went on to lead learning functions at Siemens, BBC & BP. He’s now a consultant and author of ‘How People Learn’ (Kogan Page, May 2019) as well as winning several awards for people development strategy, innovation, and learning content, including the Learning & Performance Institute’s Award for Services to the Learning Industry, 2017.

You can follow and contact Nick via:

Twitter: @shackletonjones

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shackletonjones/

Shackleton Consulting: https://shackleton-consulting.com/

Kenny Temowo Bio

Kenny Temowo leads Talent Management and Leadership Development for Netflix UK. He’s spent almost two decades in learning and education, working as a consultant with clients such as the BBC, Vodafone, and Rolls-Royce, as well as leading in-house L&D teams.

You can follow Kenny via:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennytemowo/

ABOUT THE HOST

David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D.

CONTACT METHOD

• Twitter:  https://twitter.com/davidinlearning/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin/
• L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective/
• Blog: https://360learning.com/blog/
• L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

L&D at enterprise scale is very difficult. To say the least. This is why so many start and end by ‘providing learning’ in the hope that some of it sticks and makes a difference. But the opposite to relying on hope is to stand for addressing skills gaps and holding yourself accountable to actually closing them. This is what Ryan has aimed to achieve in his roles and what he shares with us in this episode.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Lead from the front. Start with skill-based learning now.
• Treat your skills-based framework as an organic document. Update it regularly.
• AI is transforming skills-based learning. Ryan shares several real-world examples, during the podcast.
• You need to complement what AI tells you with your own research and consultation and be specific about your business needs.
• AI is great at giving you a foundation for discussion. You no longer sit down with a blank piece of paper.
• AI frees up an incredible amount of time, enabling you to be far more effective.
• Prioritise the skills that matter most, something many people still do not do.
• Build out blended learning experiences.
• At the end of the training session, provide a call to action that ensures that new skill is actually used.
• Provide an independent validation of the skill.
• Invite people who have applied that skill to demonstrate it and share how they have used it in their job.
• Go where the positive energy is. Collaborate with managers who want your help and get them to share the results. The nay-sayers and those short on time will soon be asking for your help.

BEST MOMENTS

'Skill-based learning is not knowledge-based learning. So instead of focusing on what you know, it focuses on what you do.'

'AI is going to do a great job. But then you need to round that out with your own work.'

'Be dogged in identifying what that business metric is that this stakeholder, wishes to improve.'

Ryan Tracey Bio

Ryan Tracey is a senior Learning & Development manager having worked in the corporate sector for over 20 years in addition to roles in government and higher education. Ryan holds a Master’s degree in Learning Sciences and Technology from the University of Sydney and is a prominent commentator of in the field of L&D.

You can follow and connect with Ryan via:

X/Twitter: @ryantracey

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryantracey/

Blog: https://ryan2point0.wordpress.com/

VALUABLE RESOURCES

The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523

L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

ABOUT THE HOST

David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D.

CONTACT METHOD

• Twitter:  https://twitter.com/davidinlearning/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin/
• L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective/
• Blog: https://360learning.com/blog/
• L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

Good or bad? Positive or toxic? Powerful or incongruent? Culture plays a huge part in our working lives. In L&D we ignore culture at our peril. But what does it mean to understand and change organisational culture? In this episode, former Deloitte Management Consultant, Lily Woi, unpacks this for us and provides insight and guidance on how we can change culture in our organisations.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Culture is about more than behaviour and working practices. Structure and governance both have a significant impact.
• Don´t overcomplicate things, a simpler approach is easier to follow and iterate.
• Keep improving. Change should be ongoing and happen quickly.
• Understanding your culture is the key to shaping it.
• Instead of assuming you understand the culture, observe how people actually behave.
• What is your data telling you about your culture?
• Using consultants helps to overcome not being able to see the wood for the trees and can cut through a lot of internal politics.
• Collective decision-making works best.
• Involve employees in the design phase.
• Using the 4 pillars - mindset, abilities, process, and structure leads to sustainable change.
• Measure the change.
• What has worked in one project is not necessarily going to work for another project. You have to tailor your approach.

BEST MOMENTS

'In my experience, the simplest approaches are more often the most effective.'

'Removing culture from an aspect of L&D is like trying to remove the egg from a cake.'

'I tend to ask a lot of annoying questions… to understand why, what´s really going on.'

'The approach that I use for one company would not work for my next company or client.'

Lily Woi Bio

Lily is a former Deloitte Management Consultant, focused on Organisation Transformation and Culture, Leadership & OD Lead at Next Pensions. On both sides of the table (in-company and consultancy), Lily has built deep and rich experience of organisation culture change.

As a Culture Change Catalyst, Lily now helps leaders and teams drive transformative change, unlock their full potential, and ignite a high-performance, collaborative culture. Over the past eight years, she has worked with global leaders and businesses to shift behaviours, unlock potential, transform careers, and develop courageous cultures. She has coached and trained clients working in multinationals such as Hello Fresh, Nike, Pureaffinity, and the British Film Institute.

You can connect with Lily and follow her work via:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lilywoi/

Website: https://lilywoicoaching.com/

VALUABLE RESOURCES

The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523

L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

ABOUT THE HOST

David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D.

CONTACT METHOD

• Twitter:  https://twitter.com/davidinlearning/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin/
• L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective/
• Blog: https://360learning.com/blog/
• L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

Learning communities transform organisations through sharing knowledge, spearheading practice, solving problems, seeding innovation, and supercharging development. So how can you develop a culture of learning in your organisation? In this episode, Andy Lancaster addresses this question - and many more.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• From the very start of humankind people have learned from each other, often in groups. Animals do it too.
• Learning from friends and colleagues is seen by practically everyone as being the most effective way to learn.
• People like human connection and want to feel they belong, so peer connection is powerful.
• The best learning takes place in context.
• Learning communities can be just a few people.
• We need to empower different types of learning communities.
• Learning communities share knowledge, spearhead practice, solve problems, seed innovation, and supercharge development.
• What the group does needs to be structured to a degree.
• Encourage people to work aloud to ensure everyone is actively involved.
• Reward the subject experts.

BEST MOMENTS

'The social context in which we learn is really important.'

'I think reflective practice ought to be embedded in all learning and development.'

'Subject experts play a vital role in communities in terms of coaching, mentoring and supporting.'

'Communities are a way of validating skills, which maybe organizations overlook. '

VALUABLE RESOURCES

The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523

L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

Andy Lancaster Bio

Andy Lancaster is the Chief Learning Officer at Reimagine People Development consultancy, specializing in supporting, coaching and mentoring learning leaders and teams to create impactful development strategies and solutions, transform learning cultures and empower socialized learning communities. The former Head of Learning at the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD), Andy is a trusted thinker, commentator and inspiring speaker, renowned for his insights that have helped reshape the organizational learning landscape globally. His book Driving Performance Through Learning gained a Business Book Award.

You can follow and connect with Andy via:

Twitter: @AndyLancasterUK

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-lancaster-ab995418/

Book: https://www.koganpage.com/hr-learning-development/organizational-learning-communities-9781398615496

ABOUT THE HOST

David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D.

CONTACT METHOD

• Twitter:  https://twitter.com/davidinlearning/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin/
• L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective/
• Blog: https://360learning.com/blog/
• L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

A new report, published by 360Learning, illustrates how far online has come in recent years: from poor relation to classroom training to expected and respected and recognised for helping learners bridge their skills gaps. But is that enough? In this episode, Alice and Ross join David to explore the findings and what this tells us about our ability to scale L&D today.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Both employers and employees have finally become more comfortable with digital learning.
• Employees now honestly believe that online learning is going to help them to do a better job while upskilling.
• Online learning works well in both big and small organizations. But it is smaller firms that are more receptive and are adopting AI and digital learning faster.
• For large organizations scalability is still a big challenge.
• Learning from their peers and colleagues, followed by their line managers is still preferred by most employees.
• A combination of face-to-face and digital learning works well.
• Tech is making it easier for people to share their knowledge, L&D can better tap into and benefit from this.
• Demonstrating to employees how the training can benefit them greatly improves the level of engagement.
• Clearly identify the skills people need to progress and share that knowledge with them.

BEST MOMENTS

'People now expect some respect, online learning,'

'In a smaller company, it is just a bit more dynamic.'

'You can capture SME knowledge that's valuable to the entire organization.'

'Capitalize on people's primary reasons for wanting to engage and develop their skills.'

EPISODE RESOURCES

Link to 2024 State of Online Learning Report: https://360learning.com/guide/2024-state-of-online-learning-report/2024-report-introduction/

Alice Thompson Bio

Alice is a Development Partner for Marks & Spencer and is passionate about designing performance training, data-driven decision-making, measuring impact and creating a continuous learning culture. Prior to M&S, Alice played key roles in the L&D teams at ASOS, Monzo and Butternut Box.

You can follow and connect with Alice via:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alice-thompson-849154b8/

Ross Stevenson Bio

Ross is Chief Learning Strategist and founder of Steal These Thoughts, an independent L&D think tank. He’s spent 16 years leading L&D teams, strategies, and tools within global organisations. Ross is also at the forefront of exploring the potential of generative AI in L&D.

You can follow and connect with Ross via:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rstevensonuk/

Twitter: @_Rsvenson

Website: www.stealthesethoughts.com

VALUABLE RESOURCES

The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523

L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

ABOUT THE HOST

David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D.

CONTACT METHOD

• Twitter:  https://twitter.com/davidinlearning/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin/
• L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective/
• Blog: https://360learning.com/blog/
• L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

All the talk is of AI but what about the action? Is it too soon to act or are we at risk of missing the bus? In this episode, seasoned CLO, Christopher Lind, explores how he has led his team and organisation in the age of AI towards expecting and achieving more.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• L&D teams need to adapt fast to both technological and economic disruptors and learn to use a new bag of tricks.
• You have to understand what is needed before you can deliver, so you have to push back a bit on the pressure to do everything in a rush.
• When you change the way L&D works you are going to get pushback. You will have to stand your ground but pick your battles.
• Be very patient with your stakeholders when you change things. It will take many months for them to see the improvement and fully understand the change.
• To help the stakeholder recognise whether this thing is really that important, ask what things will look like once we have fixed this,
• Get to know people on a personal level. Building strong relationships opens up communication and makes things far easier down the line.
• Use AI to work faster, but also think creatively and ask how you can use it to do things differently.
• AI makes true real-time active learning possible.
• Use AI to improve your skills and help you to do your job better and faster.
• AI creates time for you to do things you simply didn´t have enough capacity for before.

BEST MOMENTS

'I can get an algorithm to create more creative content than a person now.'

'You actually can use this (AI) for yourself as well.'

'People aren't transactions, they are relationships… focus on relationships.'

'Technology is radically opening new pathways to do stuff like we've never been able to do before.'

VALUABLE RESOURCES

The Learning And Development Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-learning-development-podcast/id1466927523

L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/

Christopher Lind Bio

Christopher Lind is VP and Chief Learning Officer at ChenMed, leading enterprise learning strategy. He’s also the host of Future Focused, a podcast and newsletter that explores the landscape of learning leadership and strategy (and much more), an advisory board member of the CLO Exchange, and the founder of Learning Sharks, which offers comprehensive advisory on all things learning innovation and technology. Previously, he was Head of Global Digital Learning at GE Healthcare.

You can follow and connect with Christopher via:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherlind/

Future Focused: https://christopherlind.substack.com/

ABOUT THE HOST

David James

David has been a People Development professional for more than 20 years, most notably as Director of Talent, Learning & OD for The Walt Disney Company across Europe, the Middle East & Africa.

As well as being the Chief Learning Officer at 360Learning, David is a prominent writer and speaker on topics around modern and digital L&D.

CONTACT METHOD

• Twitter:  https://twitter.com/davidinlearning/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjameslinkedin/
• L&D Collective: https://360learning.com/the-l-and-d-collective/
• Blog: https://360learning.com/blog/
• L&D Master Class Series: https://360learning.com/blog/l-and-d-masterclass-home/